Nintendo is just giving the people what they wanted. Can you blame them?

Rui remembers the hysteria over "Celda"

Yes, yes I can.

"What the hell is up with the ultra-realistic graphics that make it look like every other 3D game on the market, completely lacking in any true style or sense of art direction. "

Name a few games with the same artistic style that the new Zelda trailer displays.   I can't think of any off hand.   Even if a game looks realistic, does realism demand that games necessarily lack style?  I haven't seen characters similar to the stone creature in the cave or skeleton soldiers that reassemble themselves that were shown in the trailer in other games.

The trailer reminds me of Ocarina of Time.  Given the "ultra-realistic graphics" available to developers and artists today, they can add more detail and style to the game, increasing the level of a gamer's immersion in the world.  A theorectical example could be the various masks in OoT.  In the new Zelda game, a mask could be created with more graphical detail and be far more interesting that a mask in OoT.  Instead of a textual description,  the game could allow a player to zoom in and look at the intricate details of it, like see damage done to the mask while in battle.

We've only seen a few moments of gameplay from this game, so I think it might be a bit premature to pigeon-hole it has mass market, derivative garbage.

If think what Ron was criticizing wasn't the fact it's realistic (it is still not real if you still can't mistake it for a photograph), but exactly the fact it doesn't have much style.

The elements in the game are unique, as were the previous Zelda games, but it has the same muddy-gray-shadowmapped-shading as any other action/adventure in the market. Wind waker's look wasn't perfect, but was unique (and the art direction, realistic or not, was amazing), and so far is the best translation to 3d of the look of "A link to the Past".

About it looking like Ocarina of time... well, that one looked like that just for graphic limitations, there's no point on using that as a reference in terms of light & shading. And don't get me wrong, i love all Zelda games (except the quick buck gameboy ones), and, with style or not, will play the next one...

"The quick buck gameboy ones" are pretty rad if you give them a chance. In fact, those are some of my favorite Zelda games.

The gameboy ones most certainly aren't quick buck. I am going to agree with the above poster and say that the GB ones are among my favorites in the series!

I seem to remember Celda sucking a fair bit. Good graphics? I say bring 'em on.

The thing is, Wind Waker's suckage didn't come from the graphics, it came from half-hearted ingenuity and obvious rushing.  The consensus seems to be that most people who had problems with the game pointed at the experimental failure of the overworld ocean and the tight hand-holding in the early parts of the game.

For what it's worth, the new game seems like a blatant Lord of the Rings rip-off more than anything.  From the boar-riding and the fire demons wielding both whips and swords to the amazingly quick development time, it really feels like they aren't attempting to be true to Zelda with this game.

Look Here. Windwaker did not suck And Your A Fool  For Saying That . All Of you Need To Lightin Up. If Your Going To Sit Here An Criticise the games about how bad they are why dont you tell Nintendo They listened To Me And Thousands Of Others. How Do You Think Wind Waker Came Along,The Same Way That Twighlight Princess Did. Through The Minds Of The Fans, Some Who Have Been Playing For Years. So Get Of Your Sorry Butts And Talk To Them.  You Can Start By Ging To www.nintendo.com.
You Have Any Comments To That Then Go To www.freewebs.com/zelda_center.

I can blame Nintendo, too. "Celda" was a freakin' masterpiece.

exactomundo.

It's because Miyamoto has less and less to do with the franchise, I reckon.

I just hope it lacks the 'Zelda saturation factor' that I read about on some other blog. Y'know, when you seem to be going through the same old Zelda puzzles with different Zelda dressing.

The treasure hunting bit at the end of windwaker sucked ass. I was hoping for another 7 underwater mini-temples at that point.

Which blog was that?  I hit that Zelda saturation point - I remember almost the exact moment, playing Oracle of Ages on the GBA - which was a shame, because Ocarina of Time has my vote for best game evar.

http://www.nintendowatch.com/archives/000022.html

this one.
I never played the oracles (third party zelda? nah) myself, but Link's Awakening was brilliant.

Yeah, personally I'll take Links Awakening over Link to the Past anyday, guess I'm just strange that way.... But I'll agree with the earlier comment that the Oracle-games were just recycling.

Also, I really liked Wind Waker's art-direction, and I was really looking forward to a second run.

Don't blame Nintendo.

Blame the people who complained about the cartoon look.

I for one find the "realistic style" refreshing after the visual exhaustion that was Wind Waker. As nice as the cartoon look might have been, it wasn't the style which I find suits Zelda the best. Then again, Link to the Past was my favorite in the series, but it successfully combined enough realism into its cartoon style to make it work. Wind Waker just went all cartoon, and that's a bit too far.

Besides, the much lauded Zelda 64 is much more akin to the upcoming than it ever was to the cartoonish Wind Waker.

I was not a big fan of the cartoon look of Wind Walker either.  But there is a lot of space between cartoon and hyper-realistic.  That space needs to be explored.

I think the old-school computer games like Prince of Persia and a lot of graphic adventures (eg- Monkey Island 1 + 2 :P) had that sort of between cartoon and hyper realistic look. It was just the right look because it felt like a real world but it wasn't realistic nor it was cartoony. I don't think any game I can think of has achieved that recently. What you get these days is kind of a deformity of realism, which leads to some sort of obscure cartoon style (World of WarCraft, for example) or the character movement is not believeable enough. I read on how Jordan Mechner spent a long time studying movement from real footage for the original Prince of Persia, but the prince in the Sands of Time the prince moves and fights more like a computer character. He feels too choreographed.

The wind waker had that realistic sort of movement (motion captured?) on top of the ultra cartoony background (no wonder they called it "toon-shaded").

well actually some devs do not solely rely on pushing even more textures, for example those guys from Bongfish (added to that they are indies ;)). Their current project is a snowboard game called Stoked Rider ft. Tommy Brunner and also features a cell shading look. But they abandoned this "comic"-look and went on to somewhat more stylish so that it has something unique.

a german preview can be found here
http://www.rebell.at/?site=rfull&cnt=show_p1&post_id=406

i think this 3d-scene on the official website shows how impressive this look can be http://www.stokedrider.com/index3d.htm

WindWaker was without doubt one of the best games released since the turn of the century.

.. this new Z game still looks good.. but, lets see how it plays out... Judging games from Trailers.. we get fooled most of the time.

I have to disagree with you on this one.  Ever since Ocarina (and its subsequent release on the Cube) I have been waiting for THIS game.  This is the game that I wanted Windwaker to be (which it wasn't and that's cool, 'cause Windwaker blew me away for other reasons).  This is what Zelda should look like for the Cube, it seems like the logical evolutionary step for the series.  Ocarina proved Zelda could move into the 3D arena - and as far as the beefy graphics go, that's just icing on the cake.

If we can make things prettier, shouldn't we? 'Cause if Epona is going to shed her octagons, I'm not going to complain.  If, however, the story gets lost in the way, then I'll complain.  Link's adventures have yet to disappoint.

And by the way, I'm a 25 year old married chick, and I still dig on games that aren't full of great graphics (I love my pixilated monkeys).

They made things prettier with the Wind Waker. Here they're just making the same generic thing I've seen for a decade, just with more polygons. WHOOP-DEE-DOO

This sentiment is exactly why the latest Zelda game looks the way it does, which is to say stylistically derivative of the current mainstream of 3d adventure games. WW was a bold departure for the Zelda franchise and Nintendo; it's leaps of courage like that which fuel creativity and innovation in a saturated market. It's just too bad the artistic style of WW wasn't received better, since that in turn could have catalyzed other games to depart from the contemporary art in [adventure] games. (Although who's to say it hasn't?)

I appreciate how Nintendo made a huge gamble with the art in WW, and feel somewhat disappointed in the gaming community for arguably admonishing the level of innoviation they demonstrated, and fostering a return to an artistic style that has been rehashed over and over. What's the merit of adding more polys to the same models:

"Wow! Look ma', that horsey sure does look better than it did in the last game." 4 Years later... "Wow! Look ma', that horsey sure does look better than it did in the last game."

And this isn't so much an arguement against increased realism in games today, but rather a yearning for more creativity. When I saw the trailer for the latest Zelda at the GDC this year it instantly reminded me of Ocarina (which is clearly what Nintendo was aiming for); unfortunately, to my eye, the graphics and art didn't seem too awfully striking, and left me with a sinking feeling that this is simply a rehashing of what we've already experienced.

Of course, it's a bit too early to cast judgement on the game as a whole, but I feel as though part of the appeal of the Zelda franchise is its innovation, which at first glance looks to be slipping away.

Unfortunately, the majority of people who buy games are 15 year-old kids and if you want to target the largest demography (to generate the largest possible amount of sales) you're going to have to churn out 'mature', 'realistic' and 'cool' games. This was illustrated perfectly today while I was visiting my local indie to trade in some games for a copy of Ikaruga, when I overheard the two teens behind me discussing whether Resident Evil 4 looked 'realistic' or not. Their point seemed to be that only realistic games could be considered cool, and they even went so far as to saying that RE4 did not look realistic, simply because it was on the Gamecube, shrug

The videogame industry is still extremely hit-driven and relies on new technology to push things forward rather than trying to express something in an artistic way. Things will probably stay this way until technology becomes cheap enough for publishers to even consider releasing something that might be considered artistic or left-field.

Ironically enough, I think the PSP might become a sort of stepping stone for original and creative games, at least in the artistic sense (it doesn't exactly offer any new gameplay possibilities like the DS). Basically, the PSP is a portable extension of the PS2, effectively prolonging it's lifetime into the 'next generation'. Developing for what basically amounts to a 5 year old system should be very cost-effective and with some tools and middle-ware in place a small team should be able to come up with some interesting ideas. The relative low-specs of the system means that any attempts at realistic graphics will pale in comparsion to what we'll be seing on the PS3Xbox2RevolutionWhatever and while this probably won't stop developers from churning out 'mature' games, at least it might force someone with a bit of imagination to come up with something original. The low dev costs and (most likely) large user-base might persuade publishers to promote and release these games as well.

The fact that you can still visit your local "indie" game store is some bastion of hope for me.  Where I live, there is no such thing.  Every game store except for GameStop, EB Games, and GameStop (the tolerable one out of the three) has been eradicated.  The retail situation only hurts the true gamers out there who would LOVE to pick up a copy of Ikaruga... but the mass-market lowest-common-denominator over-hyped game chains have never even HEARD of it.  "Do you have ZOE2:The Second Runner?  Nope.  Katamari Damacy?  What?  XTreme T*ts-n-Ass Volleyball 3?  Sure thing sir!

So now we have droves of young gamers who are being fed pure trash by these game store chains, with hardly any other options readily available.  They could go online and be inquisitive... but that means work on their part.  They can no longer go to a store where they can find someone willing to recommend something off the beaten path.  Something that's NOT the latest T&A, blood & guts type of game.  It's like MTV telling kids what's cool.  I feel like an old man.

Anyway, I guess this Zelda thing is just another straw on the camel that is the game industry's back.  It will break, I tells ya.

It's a common perception that the majority of the game-buying public are 15 year-old kids, but if you look at the reseach data on the subject, the largest demographic of game-buyers are males in their mid-twenties to mid-thirties.  The mean age is 28 or 29, I believe.

I thought the Wind Waker was the perfect game I would play with a friend, but it's too bad that the co-op thing has been abandoned these days. Remember when we used to play Teenage Mutant Ninja(Hero) turtles on the NES/SNES/Genesis(?) with your friends from the neighborhood? Did anyone ever do that? That was so fun!

I don't know about this new Zelda, though. Sure, it appeals to my inner male hormones, but I don't know if I could play the game with a sister or a girlfriend. I could see it as a sausage-fest type play.

And I think that is an important point.  Zelda always had this imaginative awe to it, that seems to have evaporated with this latest "look".  I look at this and I get the same feeling I do with Quake, Half-life or Halo...but with tights.

Eh I'm not entirely sure I agree. Has Nintendo Sold out on this one? Yes, the PR department won. However I still think Nintendo is clinging onto that 'something' that makes them Nintendo. Watching the new trailer at GDC I saw a bit of something that games hardly ever manage to obtain, a certain Epic scope that fits the Zelda world rather well. This sense that this little man in tights is going to kick some ass, take some names, and save the world by pushing some blocks around.

From what i've seen the graphics are borderline LOTR but they seem more like what OOT was going for but couldn't do because of hardware constraints. So in that respect this is a natural OOT evolution however until I see what Tingle looks like in this new environment I can't fully comment. So long as they keep the stylized characters I think it'll work.

For a long time the highest standard in Western painting was "realism".  It wasn't until what we'd today call photorealism was achieved and relatively common (during the Renaissance, according to my crappy knowledge of art history) that artists started branching out into much more experimental work.  Indeed, I believe that the expressionists were a direct offshoot of artists seeking something beyond "simple" realism.

While the video game industry continues to get increasingly close to photorealism, we're not consistantly there yet.  There is still an urge to try and do better and better.  Once we get there perhaps a larger number of developers and publishers will be willing to explore non-realistic imagry.

Of course, painting is largely a single person's endevor, while most video games have teams from the dozens to hundreds.  While I think it's an interesting comparision, maybe it's completely irrelevant.

Your right. Picasso used to be a "realist," painter. It took the mastery of being a photo camera to realize that it was, well, probably boring.

I think the 3-d movie arena knew this from the begining... Can you think of one 3-d movie last year? I bet it was the incredibles, which were ultra cartoony. I't kida of like what Scott McCloud said in Understanding Comics: sometimes a smily face is more expressive then a photo-real drawing.

Has anybody seen that movie floating around the net with the robot policing in africa? What made is so amazingly REAL was the human motion the robot used. To me, animation makes things more beliveable or not.

I think it's far too early to tell whether this particular approach to Zelda's visuals are a step in the right direction or a stumble into an an abyss of generic darkness. I'll admit that I'm quite impressed by the quality of the graphics (and the same holds for the Wind Waker), but that's not what I'm looking for in a 3D Zelda game. I want to be drawn into a cohesive and believable world, populated with memorable characters, interesting sights and engaging events. The game's art direction, technical achievements and sound design all need to mesh at an almost unconscious level so as to convince you that you are, in fact, this pointy-eared guy running around foreign lands in the hopes of finding the princess and broadening your skills with unusual musical instruments.  

You really have to play the game for this to work. None of the trailers for the Wind Waker really conveyed the subtle details of the world - The way Link's eyes darted about and reacted to on-screen events? The sense of adventure you felt when the winds pushed your ship into uncharted seas?  The diabolical fit of laughter you had to stifle as you hurled adorable cartoon pigs into the ocean? None of that could be thoroughly expressed with some flashy footage. If this new Zelda can draw me in the same way that Ocarina of Time, the Wind Waker and Beyond Good anc Evil did, then it'll get my approval.

And by approval, I mean a complete breakdown of higher mental functions as I revert into a state of self-perpetuating glee.

it is wrong to go the way of relaism for every title, we need to go abstract, explore what we can do with games, see the far reaches, see new worlds, people and cultures, we need games that dare to dream
the problem is that no one buys games like this. No on bought Ico, or Rez, and even before the shelves most imaginative games are canned, because the idea doesn't fit in with the portfolio of the Producer, we need to get away from this world, games are the media that we can most with, but we won't grwo out of this phase unless we have something that will catch people's eyes, the old Zelda's gave that, now though, it has sunken into the crowd, it is not special anymore.
Another bad day.

No, you're not the only one. I wrote about the exact same thing (where should be obvious) and I find that there are a bunch of people that agree. Funny enough, those people are the kinds that I would consider "hard-core" die-hard life-long gamer-gamers.

So, really, the "stamp of hard-core gamer approval." is more like "the stamp of tasteless teenaged wanker approval".

The important thing to remember with Zelda games is that, unlike most franchises, the most recent Zelda look is never intended to be the 'best' or 'coolest' look, and I don't think that is the case for this one.  I think Nintendo was just trying something different than their previous aesthetic, rather than abandoning it.  With the exception of 'gaiden' games (Majora's Mask, Oracles), every Zelda game has looked drastically different than the last, even on the same system, and I think Nintendo is just continuing that tradition.

So what if this game's imagery veers more on the realistic side?  It certainly doesn't mean to displace the previous Zelda aesthetics, just to add to them.  There are definitely games that are beautiful and magical takes on realism (such as ICO), and alot of the imagery I've seen so far reminds me of them.

Zelda hasn't always thumbed its nose at trendy styles in the past, at any rate.  Ocarina of Time (probably my least favorite game in the series) captialized on the really ugly polygonal animé style that tons of pop-games were using at the time.

Since when did graphics matter?

"Graphics" may be irrellevent, but "atmosphere" and "visual design" are completely important and relevent, even in terms of gameplay!

It's very telling, to me, that the best graphics/art direction of any recent game can be found in World of Warcraft, which is also using the least technologically impressive engine of any recent game.  Go figure.

It goes to show you, good art is one of the few things in the gaming industry (or any industry for that matter) that you can't fake.  It's either good or bad, passable or extraordinary.

I remember being slightly disappointed with last years E3, The Wind Waker being one of my favorite games and all. But I will never call the new Zelda a sell out.
Much like you Mr. Gilbert I'm a disgruntled gamer, the absolute crap that sells on todays market and appreciated by the press is simply devastating for me to withstand, not a day passes that I don't ask myself; why do I even bother? But I always remember why I play games, It's the Zelda's, the Super Mario's (and RPGs), the Monkey Island's, Grim Fandango, Ico and Final Fantasy VIII and IX are the games that make me glad I play and love videogames.
You never know what to expect. For all we know the game will mix cel-shading and realisim, combining them in beautiful ways and creating stunning moments that will forever be in our hearts.
We can't judge it just by viewing 2 minutes of footage (and I'll admit they make the game look like a Lord of the Rings wanna be) but what we can do is wait and hope, hope that the Zelda we remeber, the Zelda we love
will continue to amaze us, continue to to make us think with its puzzles
and most of all continue to be Zelda.

"Realistic" graphics = poor game. selling out to a dumb view

I don't believe I ever said it was going to be a poor game, I am just disappointed that they didn't take the Zelda "capital" and do something more interesting with it.  I think anyone at the top of their "game" as an artistic obligation to push the boundaries, and hopefully they will do that in other areas of the game.

During the screening that trailer at the "heart of the gamer" Nintendo keynote at GDC, those with an eye for detail could have caught a small tear trickle down my face.

Yes, Wind Waker pissed off the 13 year olds who want to see Link covered in extraneous belts and brackets, possibly followed around by a nude princess Zelda, but people loved it -- Wind Waker had style which actually felt inviting and fun to play around in all on its own, and - what stood out most for me - beautiful expressive emotive character animation. For me (maybe other than Psychonauts) its the only game I've seen to have characters expressing real proper emotions simply through facial expressions.

Link never had a line of dialogue in Wind Waker, neither did most of the enemies, but the way it all moved and the way they animated peoples faces, you could basically read the characters minds throughout the game.

Seeing that video at GDC of the new Zelda, where everyone moved like wooden statues, only capable of making faces stolen from old versions of Tekken ("very wide open shock mouth face" and "very angry pointy eyebrow pointy teeth face")... it actually physically wore me down a bit, but on the inside where you cant see it.

I enjoyed Wind Waker, and although people may object to various aspects at least it had some originality.
Seemingly the newest Zelda has gone to appeal to the masses - however maybe the developers only made the graphics as such so that they could appeal to the masses, and draw more people back to the GC - the gameplay may be revolutionary, and the graphics may be just the gimmick to get sales/appease the marketing dept.
I have no clue, it's just the hope I'm holding at the moment.

If Zelda did sell out, it means one less good RPG available on GC, and there are few enough as it i (Fingers crossed for 'Baten Kaitos', I'll be happy if it compares to 'Tales of Symphonia')

I dunno, I think it's equally groundless to call a game generic based on ridiculously realistic art style as it is to call a game kiddie based on a super-cartoony art style.  I'll see how it plays out.  The videos are pure eye candy and serve their purpse.

I also don't like the idea of Peter Pan (a.k.a. Link) trying to look mean and edgy but after years of nagging by the "mature" gamers because of the cel-shading look, it was to be expected. I saw the trailer of the new Gamecube-Zelda right after the trailer  of the latest GBA-Zelda and wondered how they will try to make me believe, it is the same character.

What got me really angry though is the latest Prince of Persia. "Sands of Time" was about human relationships and had somewhat witty dialogues. "The Warrior Within" is about tits in domina outfits and full of the most insulting one-liners you can think of (insulting the player that is).

Hi.

Amusingly, my co-blogger posted an article explaining exactly why Zelda was doomed to be this way just a few minutes ago.

My feeling about Zelda at this point is: Great story!  But I've heard it 4 times already.  I'll sit this round out.

-peterb

Well they did make more original stories with Link's Awakening and Majora's Mask.  Perhaps if they would do that more often.

Yes!  Those two are tied for my favourite Zelda titles.  Link's Awakening was the first Zelda game I ever played (as a result, I was pretty disappointed with Link to the Past - it was like playing Ocarina of Time again!  And you couldn't customize your weapons to whatever button you wanted!), and Majora's Mask was just...wow.  Incredible.  Not only because of the transformation mechanic (swimming as a Zora was stunning - IGN described it as 'closer to flying underwater', and damn it, they were right), but also because it's the only game I've seen with a fully functional, working town where each character has their own schedule that they adhere to each day.  Ingenious.

Majora's Mask also introduced Tingle, who is just the best character ever.  I don't know why people hate him.  I'm secretly hoping he appears in this 'realistic Zelda' game just to aggravate the fanboys who love this 'mature' (meaning not mature) look.

oh god no, not tingle.
he's horrendous.

HA ha

Just wanted to pipe up and say that several games in the Ultima series had NPCs that follow their own schedules each day.  I believe it started in Ultima V, carried on in VI, and reached its peak in VII and VII Part 2, before being dramatically reduced in VIII, and completely tossed out in IX.

To be honest, I don't mind what the next Zelda looks like as long as I don't have to point a boat in a direction, then wait ten minutes for said boat to reach my next destination and kill the time by switching between AV mode and watching some telly every so often.

If I had a preference, I'd actually like to see the stubby-Link style of Wind Waker kept for the portable games, as it really seems to suit them.  Although, Link's appearance has changed for every game.  The difference between the art in Ocarina and Majora was subtle - the characters had more shadows on them in Majora.  Kind of hard to describe.

The Oracles also had a different Link look - he became blonde, as to reflect the Ocarina/Majora style, but still retaining the Link to the Past/Link's Awakening look.

A few hours ago I posted my thoughts about the so called "Zell out" and through those hours I thought about your comments, for some reason they got stuck in my head I couldn't think of any thing else, I couldn't even sit down and draw as I normally do at this hour.

You called it a sell out after watching a minute and a half trailer, perhaps you should redefine your idea of a sell out.
Did you in any point of the trailer noticed any blood or guts or any type of amputation. Have you seen any insinuation of large breasted women in thongs jumping around for Link's amusement. Did you perhaps hear a rumor of a voice acting cast featuring half-ass entertainers such as; Eminem as Link or Britney Spears as Zelda (I call them half-ass entertainers because they are not worthy of the title Musician, or as they like to call themselfs "Artists") or perhaps Vin Diesal as Ganondorf. Have you heard some one saying that the soundtrack will feature shitty famous talentless Grammy winners such as; 50 Cent, Green Day or even worse Aerosmith.

I promise if two out of these four features will appear in the actual game I will issue a personal apology in this thread.

Realistic graphics shouldn't be our concern, what I wrote above should be our concern.

You should also try to understand Nintendo is massive cooperation, they can't just give a "fuck you" to the public opinion. (Though my opinion is give them a "fuck you".)

I write this mr. Gilbert because I (much like any other person who took time in their precious lives to make comment in your site) care about your opinion, but in this case you over did it.

If what I wrote is somewhat of a contradiction to what I wrote before then so be it, I stand by this post.

It is refreshing to know that I'm not the only one that is getting sick of the realism being shoved down our throats.

I attended E3 last year for the first time, and as I wandered amongst the many games that were running on the various consoles I noticed something terribly depressing. I kept seeing this same game over and over again. It was a pretty realistic first person shooter game based in WW2. Looked pretty good.

The problem was that I saw it six or seven different times, on multiple consoles, and lo and behold - it wasn't the same game after all. It just LOOKED like the same game. If I didn't look up to see exactly WHICH game it was I never would have been able to tell the difference between them visually. That strikes me as sad and pathetic.

Holy cow.

Am I the only one who doesn't think Realism = Sell Out?

I mean, seriously, what is "selling out" even supposed to mean?

Did Windwalker fail financially?  And, since when did Nintendo have an "indy cred"?  If you ask me, "selling out" would only be applicable if Nintendo started putting advertising in their games.  Also, just sticking to the abstract style of Windwalker just so they could retain this so-called "indy-cred" would simply prove that the new style is kitsch, a gimmick.  Bucking the trend only works is you haven't already bucked that particular trend.  And besides, whatever happened to exploring the limitations of the media?  You "133t g@m0rz" can't tell the difference between half life 2 and this?  Does that mean that every artist from the baroque era is meaningless, and a "sell out"?

And this crap about how the story is the same?  Pardon?  Does this mean that every director who did a "Film Noir" after the first one is just a hack?  Have you ever HEARD of archetypical storytelling, about how its all about execution, not halfhearted attempts at complex, twist ridden plots?

By the way, does that mean that the fine folks who work their asses off innovating technology to push the limits of graphics have no real skill, that their contribution is meaningless?  Or the art department that works hard to produce a more baroque, dramatic product, as opposed to a cartoon?  

They are building on their previous work, not selling out.  If you ask me, what made windwalker fun was the gameplay, not the look.  The look was cool, but now everyone is doing it.  Sly Cooper?  Alien Hominid?  World of Warcraft (to a certain extent)?

"Gosh!  I can't tell the difference between Windwalker and Viewtiful Joe because they both use abstracted, cel shaded graphics!  They both must suck!"

Thats about what you guys sound like.  Jeez.

If you ask me, what made windwalker fun was the gameplay, not the look.  The look was cool, but now everyone is doing it.  Sly Cooper?  Alien Hominid?  World of Warcraft (to a certain extent)?

So, basically, you're saying that Nintendo is the only company that is allowed to employ this style?  Wind Waker's release date was March, 2003.  Sly Cooper's release date was September 2002.  Sucker Punch's previously released title before this was Sprocket: Robot on Wheels for the Nintendo 64 in November, 1999.

Surprisingly, during this three year period, Sucker Punch may very well have been researching and developing their engine for Sly.  I sincerely doubt that they twiddled their thumbs until Spaceworld 2001, saw Zelda's cel-shading style, and said "Wow, those graphics look nice - let's rip them off!" and churned out Sly in a year and a half.  Especially seeing as this was their first PS2 title.

It may surprise you to know that a lot of people think up similar ideas at the same time.  At work, we all thought up potential mini-game ideas that could work on the DS.  Flash forward to just before the DS' launch, and well, I'll be damned.  There's one of my mini-games, exactly as I'd thought it, in Mario 64 DS.  And another.  And another!  And ANOTHER!

My friends reassured me that if Nintendo had used them, they must have been good ideas.  sigh

Psi-Ops and Second Sight came out very close to each other, with a similar  basic concept.  I'll bet that both developers were pretty upset about that.

Okay, I'm done now.  Honest.

Jesus, has anyone heard of irony around here?  Thank you for restating my point!

I like the exploding birds

Yeah, sorry dude, you may not be the only one... but you are in the small majority. Also, every one was griping about Wind Waker when it was shown off... I'm sure many were pleasently surprised,  but Zelda should be going this way. Did you see the Goron in the trailer? Did that look realistic to anyone? Seemed more artistic to me.

It's about making games that are  a treasured experince. Realistic games help facilitate that by giving us something we can more easily relate to.

I haven't played a cartoony looking game yet where a monster jumped out and actually made me jump, but realistic looking games since 3D got a little more serious than Wolfenstein 3D, have. Besides... it is kewl to see something that doesn't exist (we hope) made to look real in a game.

Actually, the screaming zombies in WindWaker were the scariest game monsters I ever encountered.  Their partiuclar style and anatomy totally contributed to their insane terror-inducing, far more than if they were just realistic, trite, rotting Dawn of the Dead zombies...

I liked the zombies in Ocarina of Time better, actually.  They seemed much more scary to me.  I don't know, personal preference?

No, you're not alone.  I found them scarier than those in WW.

well.. we have only seen forest and plains areas outdoors.. im sure the finished product will have a variety of interesting scenery as well as cool indoor sections and dungeons which are a staple of the zelda series..

Well... I hate to say this, but I think you're over-exaggerating this circumstance. You seem to be running on the premise that simply because there's a high polygon count, the Zelda franchise must be giving up all attempts at an artistic style. You also have a very wierd sense of hyper-realism. If the footage you're looking at is the same as what I'm looking at, I don't see how you can claim it's realistic. Sure, it might have a polished, high-poly count to it, but it is by no means real-looking. The art style of Zelda bleeds all the way through that video. That scene where the ghosts appear in the sewer looking area, that was amazing, and really brought me back to the graveyard from OoT. Or the jumping statue that looks like it was taken straight from.. well EVERY OTHER Zelda game.

I think you're mixing up hype with content. Everyone is screaming about the "realistic" look, because that's one of the few new things we can see in this video (which, btw is from E3 last year). There's also a good deal of buzz about the horseback fighting, because that's also new. No one's going to jump up and down and scream about how cool Link's familier green hat looks, because it has the same green-hat style we've seen in the other Zelda games. I have seen nothing that indicates in the slightest that the good old Zelda style will be passed up for some new "generic 3D" style.

Lastly, since you're obviously not the kind of person who let's the graphics decide which games you play: Why do you really care? Do you think a "new" look will change the gameplay? So you expect Link to start wielding a gun? Maybe Epona is gonna turn into a hot rod? Will all of the dungeon puzzles be replaced with timed-button press imni games (ala DDR)? Perhaps they're changing the battle system to be card based? Well, no one really knows, but those seem highly unlikely to me, especially looking at the footage. I can't percieve how you think this Zelda game is going to be some bland not-Zelda.

In my opinion, all you're doing is going against the crowd with a poorly supported argument so you can get some attention.

#leaves to play The Legend of Zelda#

;-)

I DONT KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT?!?!!?!?!

No.

The loudest complaints usually come from the hardcore minority. "They" complained about the graphics of Wind Waker, but those same people who complained STILL BOUGHT THE GAME. So why Nintendo listened to this vocal minority I don't know. Expect this version of Zelda to sell way less than Wind Waker.

You can't call it selling out by graphics alone.  Once you see how the game actually plays, interface, story, puzzles, etc..., then you can probably make this accusation with some credibility.

So graphicly they have to be innovative or different for it to be a good game? Would you be happy if instead of doing this they "broke convention" and went with say pixel art or something?  The cell shaded thing was interesting, new and from what I hear didnt detract from the gameplay. I didnt play it, but I didnt like what I saw.

They've done a lot forms so far, from the 8-bit days, to N64 cartoony-realism, to cell shaded, now they try something different for the series...making a more realistic, serious approach to the character design...and its selling out?

Every Zelda game has had vastly different elements from what was offered in similar titles.  I wouldn't write them off so fast.

As long as we can instantly tell what's a real picture and what's computer generated, the quest for ultimate realism will continue.  When the virtual looks exactly like real, we'll all be saying "How boring!"  Realism only needs to go as far to make the fantastic believable for verisimilitude.  By then, realism will be dropped in most programs for fantastic alternates so that games can continue to grab people's attentions.

There is the upside of all this.  Movie makers use and continue to improve artificial sets, scenery, characters, etc.  These techniques are important to integrate the actors and existing props into motion pictures.  Medicine, surgery, and all sorts of practical fields will benefit from these advanced trainers.

But always, the software in question needs to answer the question of "why use perfect copies of reality?" to the user.

Personally, I think it's an insult to assume that "realistic" graphics are not artistic, or that there is no artistry involved in creating them. As a person who spends their days making a living from trying to recreate visually stunning game worlds, (in my tiny world, artistically created photorealism is stunning) the craft of creating photorealism in a 3D space is not an easy one, and requires keen observation skills, and a grasp of how to transfer real-world ideas and concepts about visuals over to a more focused, number-based medium like computers. It is, in my opinion, extremely difficult to get good results and very much requires a healthy sense of art, light, color and space in addition to technical know-how. It is not a question of an artist just slapping a photograph on a model and calling the end result photorealistic. The visual real world and a 3D space are simply not 1:1 in this regard.

Frankly it hurts to have potshots thrown at something deeply cared for...even if only by a few...especially when they come from a highly regarded friend and purveyor of our favorite pastime, graphical visage aside. Do you hold ILM in the same regard in their quest to seamlessly portray photorealistic effects along with filmed imagery? Surely, games and film are different mediums with different goals, but is there not a correlation there between the two?

I could easily say: "Am I the only one on this tumultuous union of earth and sky that doesn't want anything to do with a retarded western culture jizz-fest of game that is seemingly written by and simultaneously panders and caters to 5 year-olds while forcing heavy-handed, condescending and trite "Playskool" graphics upon their crazy in-bred, narrow-minded (mis?)conception of what "kids" want.?"

I love Monkey Island 2 - in large part because of the graphics. I see them in a much more gritty and photorealistic light than those of Monkey Island 1 and it very much adds to my enjoyment and nostalgia for the game. I play newer graphic adventures and really pine the absence of those gritty, dark shadowy corners and subtle gradients of lighting across 2D portrayals of a 3D surface on a 2D screen. I personally liked it better when red gradates into blue as opposed to just separating the pure two colors by a strip of black brushstroke.

Perhaps there are those out there that see the ridiculousness of Windwaker's graphics as just as common and derivative and sell-out in nature and as carbon copies of the myriad of bad, mass-produced Anime cartoons in existence.

As a kid playing Zelda, the visual message of new version is precisely how I personally envisioned the message that the graphics of the early games was trying to portray - knowing/interpreting, inherently at the time, that was the best they could do given the palette/hardware/technical limitations of the period.

I see it all as a constant progression to get whatever ideas we have in our heads out in whatever method we initially envision them in. Some people envision in photorealistic, hi-res glory. Some envision in a retro-cartoon simplification.

You know what's great about this big ball of water and rock? The fact that both of these dissenting opinions can exist in peace with each other along with the many other views the people of this planet maintain.

To each their own...and in good health. If I were asked, I would kindly respond that not all realistically created 3D graphics need to be belittled and that sometimes change of paces can be a good, enjoyable thing. Most of the time, though, I hate them too. ;)

Humble apologies for any bad grammar due to spur-of-the-moment / heated posting. :)

NOBODY GIVES A FUCK

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the level of absurdity in this article and the comments that follow are matched only by /.  way to go, jackasses.

i second that emotion

Retard.

I have a problem with the comment that Zelda has always "zigged" when everyone else was "zagging", especially when it comes to graphics. The old Zelda games from the NES, SNES to N64 always looked similar to other games in the same genre. Especially "A Link to the Past", that wasn't doing "zigging" of any kind. It looked very similar to other overhead action-RPGs that had come before it. The only time the series took a step back from its traditional look was in Wind Waker (a brilliant move, by the way). Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask look exactly the same. Gameplay wise, each Zelda game has always played like previous ones. That's not a bad thing, that's just refusing to fix what isn't broken. Considering how many people rejected the original look of Wind Waker only to be blown away once they actually sat down and played it, one would think you'd have learned not to judge a game you haven't played. Wait until E3.

You just can't please some people.

Well this is funny consitering you are doing the exact thing people did when looking at Celda. Complaining about graphics before theyve had a chance to play the game. Its not even relaesed yet and still your making judgements based on graphics. You suck at writing articles dood get another hobby

As someone who hangs out in some Zelda fan communities on a regular basis, I have to say it's actually not the fan*boy* masses, but the fan*girl* masses drooling over photorealistic hunky Link that are making the biggest fuss.

You know when Zelda really stood out?
When Wind Waker hit, before that it looked just like "every other game".
Gameplay was what made it different, not art style.
I really don't see how the style in this trailer is different from the bland graphics of N64 Zeldas (yes, it was amazing AT THE TIME, but now it's just generic fantasy with low polygon count).
I'm not a fan of this direction but it's hardly selling out, it's more like returning to the series' (3d) roots.

I love my Wind Waker a whole lot, and wasn't glad do see that the style is gone in the newest game, but what you say here is just a huge load of bullshit.

As I have said for a number of years... its not the realism or the raw power of the consoles that drive game innovation. Cookie cutter games, like most Disney movies these days, satisfy the herd not the head!

Windwaker had the right idea and the gameplay was just as unique as the cell-chading, except for the retarded endless sailing!

I don't think the next-gen gaming consoles are going to fair all that well if some real gaming innovation doesn't result from their development! I am certainly not looking to buy any next-gen gaming consoles to play the next, Halo or Mario or Grand Theft. That is just plain STUPID!

Almost as stupid as paying $20 a month to play a game online after plunkin' down $50-$60 bucks for it over the counter! This trend too is not sustainable. $50 a month for CableTV, $50 a month for the internet, $20 a month of WOW, $20 month for XBox  Live... that's a $140 bucks just to get pissed off at the clueless idiots who roam these useless realms!

So there!

yo mama

Wow, how the mighty fall.  I used to have respect for Ron Gilbert - now he tells us that he evaluates a game based on its graphics and a short trailer?

Ron, who cares what the graphics are like?  It is simply an extension of the Ocarina of Time graphical style - which is widely regarded as one of the best games ever - its fine if you want to buy games based on graphics, but writing about it like this makes you look like a right fanboy.

Its a bit rich to criticise legends like Nintendo when the last decent game you released was a decade ago..............

Hmm.  So what you're telling us is that movies all look alike, have no individual style, and suck because they use REAL ACTORS, and are shot in the real world?  I have to say.... bullshit!

The characters in the new zelda are instantly recognizable as zelda characters.  This isn't a sell-out, by any stretch of imagination.

I love the zelda series, I've played most of them, but wind walker I skipped- not because I am fundamentally against cartoon art, but cartoon art is very personal, and I really disliked the style of the drawings which were used in Wind Walker.   I love the style that I see in the new zelda, and it will probably finally motivate me to acquire a gamecube and the new zelda.

I agree.  Movies shoot reality, but a good movie has choices made in costuming, set decoration, lighting, etc that combine to create a unified look that is distinctly its own.

... of those, lighting has so far been the weakness in computer/video games, but I am confident that will improve soon.

I hate cel-shaded games with a burning venom, but that may be because I know first-hand the misery of painting cels by hand. Plundering obsolete technologies for graphical styles is all well and good, but if it's OK for games to take the look of old-style animated films, why is it suddenly a "sell out" to take (or at least try to attain) the look of about 99% of live-action movies? I've never heard anybody complain about movies looking "realistic".

Personally, i'd like it if they used the cell-shading technology to create a zelda game which felt and looked completely like japanese anime... In fact, i'd like that in any game... >_> (Can you say "Narutimett Hero"? ... oh wait, you probably can't...)

I have to laugh at the use of the team "realistic". Is either graphical style truly realistic and more to the point why should it be.

The problem as I see it is that the new Zelda looks like it conforms to the industry standard "realistic" look.

Realism in a game is when you look at in the context of its own universe.
Wind Waker is not unrealistic, as everything that exists in its universe is consistant.

I personally think its living cartoon look if far more impressive then the look of the new Zelda.

You know, for all this blogging, I thought that the game wasn't supposed to be about the graphics. Did anyone here think that maybe it's just a fresh new direction for zelda? I mean, half the magic is that it IS Zelda. The gameplay could be fantastic, and nintendo were never one to follow trends.

This is new because it's a direction that Zelda has never taken before. Grumpy, you could have said exactly the same thing about OOT.  It would have looked very similar if it had been developed on the cube.

Besides, we've seen what? 3 minutes of gameplay footage? Let's just wait and see, eh?

Actually, I think Zelda "sold out" to an extent by the third game. I've grumbled enough about this elsewhere. Nevertheless, Link to the Past was the beginning of this trend: showing rather than implying, mechanics used for their own sake (in this case to placate everyone freaked out by the second game) rather than designed for a specific purpose. The introduction of overt "puzzles", the minimization of exploration, the lowering in status of secondary items from treasures to mere keys to the locks of level design barriers. I mean, the magic wand -- wasn't that always the coolest item? Why was it so cool? Because it was unneeded. Not only was it arbitrary; it even had an extra power-up, that was even less mandatory.

The third game tightened things up, and polished them down, and made everything literal. The series has just gone downhill from there. The only exceptions I see are what original elements Eiji Aonuma has brought to the series. Even he has problems, though, as he seems too insecure about straying from the Miyamoto formula. Imagine if Wind Waker hadn't been so paranoid in its second half about being a Zelda Game, and had continued in its own direction implied earlier on, and at the very end? It had so much potential. In the end, though, there's that fear. Must not go outside the lines. Must deliver what people expect.

The one thing I can say about the new trailer: at least it's got a sense of mood that's been missing from the series since the NES games. Otherwise, it's hard to tell. Nothing that I give a damn about can really be conveyed in a trailer.

"The only exceptions I see are what original elements Eiji Aonuma has brought to the series. Even he has problems, though, as he seems too insecure about straying from the Miyamoto formula."

Again I point to Majora's Mask, except Miyamoto was, I believe, actually the one who came up with the time system.  No other Zelda game is going to have a time cycle like that, obviously, but wasn't it refereshing that stuff started to get jumbled up with that game?  Majora's Mask strayed further from the formula than any other Zelda except maybe the second, and it's become a favorite of mine.

Well, yeah. That's another Aonuma game.

I just want to see Aonuma do his own thing. He's got great ideas, and he executes things well. He's just smothering with this series, though, trying to carry the weight. If he could only escape, I think he'd be one of Nintendo's biggest talents.

You know what is funny? I remember the days when games looked different from eachother.  Then 3D cards hit the market.  Yeah, I got caught up in the excitement.  In fact, I owned one before anyone else I knew, nerd that I was.  As soon as every developer began to conform to DirectX and OpenGL, games started to look very similar, because they all used the same base rendering engines.  Worse yet, both of these engines chose to go with polygonal rasterization, one of the least flexible (and blockiest looking) techniques (although the fastest method at the time). I think part of the beauty (and fun) in making a game is making your own rendering engine, with its own algorithms.  Old 2d engines and graphics still manage to impress me more than many recent engines I have seen.

its a bit rich to criticise legends like Nintendo when the last decent game you released was a decade ago..............

Maybe there's a reason why this place is called Grumpy Gamer instead of Grumpy Developer. Maybe.

Coolness, mighty Gilbert defended by his fanboys? Not a problem ;)

Nintendo is giving people what they want, go check any gaming forum and find out why Nintendo came up with a mature Zelda this time.

So what you're saying is that Nintendo should fire all their game designers and just let some morons on message boards dictate what they should do? Gotcha.

It looks to me that the character designs are still interesting and true to the Zelda series.  Those fodder critters that can be seen riding the boars certainly look unique and the moblins (seen in the original teaser video) retain much the same style they had in Wind Waker.  That demon with the chain (also in the original teaser) is pretty snazzy too.  I find those zombies in the sewer scene to be remniscent of Morrowind though, which isn't so much a good thing.  And the goron looks unsettlingly like just some beefy naked dude.

My real qualm is that the color theme looks to simply be desaturate everything.  I really wish that they hadn't so fully ditched the lush, vibrant colors of Wind Waker.  The visuals in these videos just don't seem to convey any particular sense of mood or atmosphere to me.  In my mind, Zelda is first and foremost an exploration game, so one would think that the visuals ought to convey wonder and curiosity and, in general, look inviting.  I'm not getting that here.

I'm going to hold out hope though that these video clips don't do the full game justice.

Think a lot of people tends to forget that it aint all about grapichs. Just like those who critisized the cartoon look on the wind waker liked the game , when they sat down and played it. I think those who are complaining already AFTER JUST TWO VIDEOS, will find that nintendo has not dissapointed with a zelda title to date, and most likely will not do it this time either.

So you didn't like the "cartoon" gfx in Wind WaLker?

You don't even know the name of the game, so shut up.

Again, as with my earlier post, I liked wind waker.  I own wind waker.  Please read the post?  And if you did, please develop a sense of irony?  Oh, and if I make a typo, that makes my opinions invalid?  What is this, "Twelve Year old" day?

Have you seen Darwinia? THAT's original and imaginative artwork!

i agree with you here.  Darwinia is also a pretty cool game which remains me i need to upgrade my computer cos it runs at 5 fps on the lowest setting on the temple level and makes it unplayable.

I have a top-of-the-range PC with ATI Radeon 850XT PE graphics card, and the Temple level still runs at 5fps for me - must be some kind of bug.

Even when I put the resolution down and put everything on low settings it still happens.

All the other levels run at over 100 FPS. Weird eh?

Hehe, one has to be careful when expressing negative views about games/movies/books that managed to gain a cult following.

For instance, I hated the third Lord of the Rings movie for what I feel to be completely valid reasons. However, speaking this opinion often gets me in trouble.

Another example: Final Fantasy. These games, in my opinion, are becoming a joke - one that is growing funnier with each new isntallment. Again, speaking these opinions attracts a deluge of poorly presented arguments about how I'm completely and totally full of shit.

Regardless, I have to agree with you on this on, Ron. When I saw the Zelda presentation at the GDC, I felt like yawning...

Dude, just wait and play the game before you condemn it.

Oh no!!! More like Realda instead of Celda.  Give me a break.  Just because a game has realistic instead of styalized graphics does not automatically mean its going to be bad or a sell out.  Zelda is nintendos baby, and they will make sure it is a great game.  Their reputation relies on it.  Metroid Prime looks very realistic, but still has a lot of style, no reason this Zelda shouldnt either.

We (the community there) are currently more or less discussing these things in the Larian Studios boards : Nowadays everything's put into the technical layout of a game (the engine mostly, complete with "stunning 3D graphics"), but very few into the story. Everything's action-driven nowadays.
I think the opinion I read there brought it to the point that publishers want everything to be compatible with the "mass market", otherwise they won't  put money into it. Developers have no chance against them. No chance to develop what they want, not what the publishers want. Therefore we will see many, many more titles like that, like what the publishers believe is right in the future, and that means : only mass selling titles. That's why Adventures and RPGs (not Action-RPGs !) suffer from this mostly : They are traditionally more story-driven, giving candy for the mind and heart, not for the eye.

Alrik.

Zelda more like Relda lol1111!

Let's just face it: For each new Zelda game that is announced, someone is going to lash out at the look of the game because "it's not Zelda". What IS Zelda really? When The Wind Waker was announced, there was this big fuss about the game's cel shaded look. "It's too cartoony!" people said, "It's not Ocarina of Time!" It seems to me that every time Nintendo launches a Zelda title, people take a look at the screens and compare it to the previous game in the series. And if the two don't compare it's just WRONG, and uproar spreads like fire through dry grass.

Like someone said earlier, just because it has lots of polys and doesn't have cel shading doesn't mean it can't have its own style. Take Beyond Good and Evil for example, an artistic masterpiece of a game that had lots of polygons and a nice, polished look. Also, it's a bit exaggerated to call the new Zelda look "hyper-realistic"; to me, the characters seem to look very much like in the concept drawings, which in turn don't really fit into the 'photo-realism' genre. I'd say the look is grittier and more mature than last we saw Link on the GameCube, but not much more.

I for one thing get the same feeling from looking at the game's trailer that I got from watching trailers from Ocarina of Time at the time it was released. Perhaps The Wind Waker has just made some people forget what that looked like back then.

All gameplay aside, the new Zelda will suffer from its graphical direction.
There is a little something called timelessness that Nintendo have been superb at imbuing their games with that is now lost.

Compare Blue sky (Robots, Ice age) pictures to Pixars work. In 20 years we'll look back at Robots and cringe at the britney spears gag. Then we'll reach for Finding Nemo or the Incredibles. Pixar stays away from pop cult references which in turn lets them craft worlds beyond our own. When you pop in your Bambi DVD, you don't care what year it was or what pop artist was killing the charts at the time. You just watch the pretty animation.

I'm a huge fan of nonphotorealistic rendering for this reason, like i'm a fan of 2d graphics ala SNKs late 90s work. Striving for photorealism puts you slap bang in the middle of relativity. Showing fantastic imagery allows to to excel artistically in ways realism simply won't allow.

Today i look back at Zelda III and still go wow at the rain in the beginning. It's just so well realized. The sound and visual expresion go hand in hand, you can almost feel the rain on your skin. I also look back at Ocarina of time and i think "jeez. What the hell is up with those retarded lowres prerendered backgrounds?" Ocarina of time was superb from a gameplay point of view (in every possible way) but it was certainly not an attractive game. I didn't think so then and i certainly don't think so now. It was severely limited by technology, and that's the stigmata Nintendo is slapping on the next Zelda. In 10 years we'll look back and frown at the low res characters compared to god knows what else we'll be looking at then. We will still look at windwaker and go wow.

Also, this is a radically bad choice for the gamecube platform, which simply doesn't push photorealism as good as it pushes nonphotorealism.
I have a gamecube, an xbox, a dreamcast and a NES hooked to my vga box switcher, and when i turn on my gamecube it is to see fantastic imagery. xbox can't offer that on the same level. The cube's hardware limitations force its developers to be creative, and that's where it excels.

Nintendo is going to display the relative weakness of its hardware with the new Zelda, and it is probably the first time in recent memory i've heard of Nintendo bowing to the will of naysayers. Sad indeed.

Have you ever heard of Rebel Strike? Puched the most polygons out of ANY of the consoles. What about RE4? Developers are having quite a hard time porting it to the PS2. Seems to me if a "realistic" Zelda was going to be on ANY of the consoles it would be the GameCube.

RE4 is my current Game Of The Year pick and it looks miles better than Halo 2 (read my blog for details on this), but it isn't as high poly as you might think. Dont mistake polycount for visual flair.

Hardware specs are hardware specs, and the cube can't match the xbox in that regard. You could bring up the resident evil remakes, but they basically fake it.

Of all my consoles i love my cube the most. It is a platform for which developers tend to take risks. Crazy things like Killer 7 and Wind waker wouldn't have happened elsewhere. People who look at windwaker's cel shading and compare it to that of say Jet grind radio arent fit to pass judgement. Windwaker's celshading is of another world entirely.

I dunno.

The scenery looks good I think, but I am not impressed with Link's character model. However, I've never judged how good a game is based on graphics before, and I am not about to start now. We have no idea how the final game is gonna be, what Nintendo will do with the gameplay or storyline.

All I know is I've never been disappointed with a Zelda game before, and Nintendo has always done interesting things with the franchise. Zelda II on NES was nothing like the original in any way, Zelda III introduced the consept of two separate worlds affecting eachother, Ocarina of Time is a timeless masterpiece that not only showed how to do 3D adventure gameplay right (Z-targeting), but immersed a whole new generation to the Zelda universe. Majora's Mask was absolutely brilliant in every way, and has some of the most intelligent game world and timeline programming I've ever seen. It looked exactly like Ocarina of Time, it controlled exactly like Ocarina of Time, but the game was nothing like Ocarina of Time at all.
Fantastic time concept, and being able to transform to several other species and apply the other masks to solve tasks definitely shook up the gameplay.

It pissed me off when Wind Waker came out that so many dismissed the game simply by judging the graphics as "childish", so if you thought those people were dumb, you shouldn't dismiss this new game or Nintendo for this graphics style either.

Wind Waker was absolutely amazing, tho I agree some larger land areas to roam in and a couple of more dungeons would have done the game good. Still, I've completed the game 3 times, and photographed every single character, creature and enemy in the game with the PictoBox to get a complete Nintendo Gallery (which took absolutely FOREVER), so I definitely got my money's worth on this one too. And I still think the game is the most beautiful video game ever. The unrealistic graphics style actually made the world seem more alive and "real".

If you paid attention to the new Zelda trailer, there are hints to what may possibily be a gameplay theme - utilization or control of animals. We see Link riding both a horse and a boar, he picks up a small cat in one scene, and the final shot is howling wolf (very cliché, but still).

Nintendo may have bowed to pressure in making the new Zelda in this graphics style, but that doesnt mean that the game won't be absolutely amazing.

This article is complete horsecrap!

The REAL sell-out was the previous Zelda game with the awfull cell shaded look.  Cell shaded games are awful and I for one will never touch the Zelda series again until it reverts from this horrible development decision and back into the land of realiity.

You're a clever kitten arent you. Since when was zelda ever about realism

Ever played Ocarina of Time? This new style is just a continuation of OOT's style.

OOTs style was generic nintendo. I refuse to believe people love OOT for its visual expression, which was bland at best. It was a perfect game, but certainly not for its visual style. I thought it looked like generic crap even back then.

Still I'd rather have a good game, than a pretty game. Wind Waker was pretty. But it sucked.

Yeah, though I do appreciate cel-shading and the innovations that Zelda games have always had, I do think that an ultra-realistic look fits Zelda (perhaps with a slight animé touch). Frankly, I thought Zelda 64 was one of the best games of all time, despite (or maybe because of) its pretensions of realism. What sets aside Zelda is the mythos, the simple storyline that's nonetheless worthy of analysis and looking at, the enemies that you remember from previous games, the locations you get to see again... It's about playing every game every time you play one of them.

It's funny, in a lot of ways I have the exact opposite opinions of some of the people here: Monkey Island II seemed to me to be less dark and more upbeat than Monkey Island I, Majora's Mask seemed to me to be INCREDIBLY bizarre and weird (the kissing shop owners, some of the dialogue, and that friggin moon...)

Yeah, i totally agree with you, i thought i was the only one. The next Zelda is going to be grey and brown, like any other 3D game. What a pity.
I'm fed up with "mature games", if mature is only grey, brown, kill, sex.
S.

I think the last time i played a truly mature game was Planescape Torment, which challenged me on a number of levels i cannot imagine a child being able to take on. There are obviously 2 sides to the mature coin. One being the intellectual and the other being the visceral. For the most part games, movies, books etc that cater to the latter are the ones that come out selling. Blame the public that's making it so :P

You shouldn't blame Nintendo. Even though I thought Zelda TWW was a masterpiece, I also think it's sales suffered because of the toonish graphics. AND they did almost promise us a mature, realistic Zelda game from the beginning, I do belive they actually promised us a mature game after the The Wind Waker game.

But look at Prince of Percia 1 and 2, the same thing applies there, on the number 2 game they gave what the public wanted, and sure enough it sold better.

So you didn't like Celda, but you think this new realistic version of Zelda is selling out?

How does that work? Sounds to me that you people don't know WHAT you want.

Thus far, the only complaint I've heard is that thus far it looks similar to other 3d titles that are out or are coming out. But when LTTP came out, it looked similar to a lot of ARPG's that were out or coming out at the time (Terranigma anyone?).

But It doesn't matter. People said the same thing when Celda was first revealed. "OMG!!! WHAT HAVE THEY DONE TO MY GAME FRANCHISE!! IT'S AIMED AT LITTLE KIDS!!! IT'S THE END OF NINTENDO!!! THEY'VE RUINED IT WITH THIS NEW ART STYLE!!!!111one".

Were they wrong? Yeah. Was the game good? Yeah. Do I expect this to be any different? No.

You want something different. There's Wario Ware for that. If the gameplay of Zelda was changed dramatically (or perhapse traumatically), everyone in the gaming community would throw a fit and everyone here, EVERYONE HERE would be up in arms.

Uh ... pardon me, but Terranigma was released a cool 5 years after A Link to the Past. The game was practically a release title, while Terranigma was released as the bells knelled the death of the console. What other action-adventures were available at the time? The only games I can come up with that attempted to match A Link to the Past's style would be Soul Blazer and Illusion of Gaia, perhaps Lagoon, but these were all released more than a year after A Link to the Past. I'd say A Link to the Past established the clichée, because it sure didn't follow any trodden path.

I am actually willing to agree with you on Ocarina of Time. The game looks absolutely horrible. Even technological dead-ends such as Final Fantasy VII has far more visual flair than Ocarina, with its barren countryside, lo-poly painted-on-faces and chug-chug-chug frame rate. I  prefer the darker, horror-inspired visuals of Majora's Mask, which features vastly superior polycounts. Still not enough, though, to keep the graphics from being a bit generic. I also enjoyed the focus, the intriguing possibility of the world actually ending in Majora's Mask, whereas the destruction of Hyrule was always an abstract possibility in Ocarina of Time that would never actually occur while the player was in the game world. Wind Waker appealed to me from a graphic perspective, but the action was always a little annoying, and some of the puzzles too contrived for my tastes. Most games have contrived puzzles, even Half-Life 2. The only games I really enjoy stopping and thinking in are really pure puzzle games, and in the kinetic puzzles of Ico and Prince of Persia. Those are engaging, dynamic puzzles that may not require much thought, but then again: pulling crates hardly taxes your cortex either. Link is not a very athletic hero, unfortunately, otherwise I would have loved seeing Nintendo's take on the kinetic puzzle. As long as they would stay away from the bullet-time ...

If you want great art direction, check Capcom's Okami! That game is the most incredible thing i've ever seen, even more impressive than the other artistic Capcom game, Killer 7.

These games look so 'perfect' because technology completly seems to fill the needs of the certain art style, whereas with realistic graphics, you can always see the difference. That's also why Lego Star Wars or Ratchet & Clank - and also Wind Waker - look so cool, it looks how it's supposed to look. It's just dumb consumers who prevent game creators of doing this more - it's doesn't sell (yet).

Cough World of Warcraft Cough

Well there are exceptions to the rules always. World of Warcraft is based on a franchise which started at a time when 'realistic' graphics didn't matter that much - or weren't even possible. It gathered a big fanbase back then. When it wouldn't be related to Warcraft and be just as good, I doubt i'll be the largest western MMOG out there.

Yeah, Okami looks fantastic. I am afraid about getting a seizure while playing it, But yeah it looks outstanding.

I think it's interesting to think "sell out" when you're talking about franchises that have had multiple iterations. People shouldn't be criticizing Zelda for its look; they should be saying, "Jesus, another Zelda? When will Nintendo start developing some newer franchises?"

I agree that the art direction went from being unique, if controversial, in Wind Waker to bland and generic with what's shown in this trailer. Why not a middle ground, like the rotoscoping Richard Linklater did with Waking Life and is doing with A Scanner Darkly?

Nintendo has actually been pretty prudent with its properties, one of the reasons why theirs seem to have retained alot of their magic.  The Zelda series has only had 1-2 entries for each system, and each major entry (as has been stated before) sported an entirely new look, and usually pretty new gameplay.

Compare this, to, say Capcom, a company that relentlessly sequels to death any property they have.  6 megaman games on the NES, 5 on SNES, 7 on the PSX, the HUGE number of Street Fighter II games (somehow they managed to fill a whole decade making sequels to one entry in a series...).  As a result, Megaman and Street Fighter (and Resident Evil, etc.) have lost all integrity as franchises.  A new Street Fighter game is never met with the buzz and excitement of a new Zelda game, a new MegaMan game will never be as innovative and exciting as a new Zelda game (or Mario game, or Wario Warez, etc.)

There weren't 7 flat-out Megaman games on the PSX. The original and X series are pretty much the same, so I'll give you that. That makes FOUR games. MegaMan Legends is a completely different series.  I'm guessing you're including the Japanese-only Rockman Dash in your figures? Or am I missing a game? Perhaps you consider the Misadventures of Tronn Bonne as a MegaMan game, too?

I'd definitely count the Legends games.  The fact that capcom adhered the name of their MegaMan property to a completely unrelated (or as you put it 'completely different') series only seems to emphasize their desire to shamelessly pimp out their properties. (And if Legends is a 'completely different' game than the others, Ocarina of Time would be a 'completely different' game from the ones that preceded it, and wouldn't count, either...)

I, of course, loved Legends...but I'd still say it counts in Oompa's list.
It seems like he's either including Tronne Bonne or Rockman Battle and Chase in his tally...probably the latter, since it actually features megaman?

He neglected to mention the 7 gameboy games (only one of which had original characters), and the fact that, since 2001 The 'Battle Network' series has already gotten up to 5 installments (some of which come in multiple versions)... It took the entire Zelda series 11 years to get to its Fifth game...

Legends is a complete re-interpretation of Megaman, really. And at least the NES games showed signs of noticable evolution, unlike some modern sequels.

Nintendo, and the Zelda series, HAS almost always been about innovation. JUST innovation. Generic. Keeping recent, OOT took Zelda in 3D, MM did a mask and repeating daytime thing... Wind Waker did GRAPHICS. Sure, there was a boat...but, really, the 'new' and 'innovative' thing in Wind Waker was graphics. If Nintendo did that AGAIN, it really wouldn't be innovative, now would it? By giving the game 'realistic' graphics-- Just like EVERY OTHER game out there that's not emphasizing graphics as the main-theme for playing it --it means that Nintendo is obviously focusing on SOMETHING ELSE to make the new Zelda innovative. Don't slam on the game just because the graphics aren't all-new cool. They aren't ULTRA-REALISTIC, either. They just ARE.

Ron Gilbert isnt exactly saying that the new Zelda game is going to suck because of the unoriginal graphics. He's just saying that it doenst deserve as much hype as it is getting for only its graphics. It should be getting attention for the story and the gameplay. Much like the attention that Windwaker deserved. Personally I'm hyped about all the aspects of this game. I also think that Nintendo is releasing the game with realistic graphics just to remind people to realize the power of the Gamecube (like they did with Resident Evil 4) and that there are possibilities for great games to be on it. Of course, this won't make much difference for the sales of the Gamecube with the next consoles coming up.
(I'm sure that what I've said has been cliched over and over, but I dont have the patience to read all the 120 comments)

is it just me, or does anyone else find the 120 posts of self congragulatory elitist bullshit ironic?

Are you not familiar with this whole "internet discussion" thing?

whoop, i seem to have forgotten what i think about this particular facet of the oh so evil gaming industry.


my piano looks a heck of a lot like everyone elses, damn you yamaha, cant you tell that ART is created with these things, you must not be such a sellout and make it look like every other piano on the market, i want it to be lime green, and have horns...

the point being, that graphics are not the "art" part of the game (and were i not a flight simmer, id disupute that games even have a artistic part) but the actual play (not hte gameplay, the PLAY) is the art. go to the local fencing club, watch a master fight. thats an  art. go watch a master welder weld, art. youve all seen the film of a guy with a 6 gun shoot super fast and accurate, theres an art (speaking of 6 guns, the old west is suprisingly absent in games) watch a damn good pilot in a flight sim fight, theres a art (even better if you watch 2 go after each other)

everyone at a boarding school with uniforms is supposed to look the same, but anyone whos been anywear near them can tell you that despite the attempts, everyone still manages to put there own style into it.

even cookies made with a cookie cutter end up looking different. the problem with cookies that look different is they often taste the same, which is the REAL PROBLEM, of which the solution to is general amnesia, or rather, a slow rotation of game ideas, so just as burnout is setting in for one genre, its finally let out for another one, only this time around thanks to improvement in technology, its just a bit different and a bit better.

in the end though, we all, always, end up looking like a bunch of looser teenagers trying to feel good about ourselves, by using the standard bullshit attempts at justifying why were not cool face it, you dont have freinds because oyur a asshole, not because your ugly, smell funny, or wear last years clothes. despite your mommys assurances, you dont have a little bundle of sunshine inside that if only people would get over your looks t they would find, if you DID want to hang out with those people, or not get picked on, its up to YOU to make the changes nessasary, not them. bringing this part back the gaming, its like people whining at the developers to make a change to allow something that you could already do, without htere help, if only you got a freaking imaginationl.

wait no, i dont mean that, trying to be antisocial and therefore cool by disagreeing with everything anyone does isnt that smart.  i enjoy the same gameplay in different enviroments, i enjoy realistic graphics, because im to much of a loser to go outside and play, i enjoy making the developers work for there grog, and damnit i enjoy beer, and cheap rye whiskey, not wine, which is, bringing myself back to what my original point in my original post was, what im certain a fair number of you like, simply because of the snob culture involved. though i will drink a cheap glass at christmas.

Egypt?

Good post, very well said about the Zelda zig-zagging.  To go in such a wild direction with Wind Waker, and to pull it off so well, has got to be an all-time triumph for artistic impulse over fashion trends.

Wow, there's a screenshot of the game at the top of the post!  I'd noticed it there, but for some reason I hadn't made the screenshot in zelda related post = zelda connection.  I actually think I assumed it was halo for some reason.
I guess that says a lot about how the graphics have gone a bit generic, ne?

Personally, I think they made Wind Waker look the way it does, because cellshading was something completely new, refreshing and groundbreaking.

IF Nintendo figured "hey, let's make the next zelda game look just like wind waker" then the new zelda would get some harsh comments, simply for not being groundbreaking, again. So what should nintendo do?

They should once again try to make something different. This new look might for some look like any other 3d game, but for me; it looks like a total new look for the ZELDA franschise. And considering all this; I think THIS is what drowe the zelda developers towards this new look. (plus, they also stated that they wanted "grown up" graphics, to show that link is no longer a child, like he was in wind waker..)

So I don't really get all the whining about the choice of graphics for the new zelda. You would whine just as much if they DIDN'T change the look. Chew on this for a while, that's all I ask.

I think it's about time Nintendo updated their franchises to fit in with the current video games market. A realistic looking, adult Link is a start I guess. But I'm think about what they could do for that other guy, Mario. Crime / mafia / gang themed games are big at the moment. Maybe they should be thinking about that when they design the next Mario game. After all, Mario is an Italian in the "waste management" business (and we all know what that means)...

The norwegian newspaper: VG, has a blog-system at their website, and one of their employees used it to anynomously write an article similar to yours...

He had been writing about World of warcraft too, and made quite a chaos, over 500 posts, similar to: "You suck" was posted...

You may read it here: http://blog.vg.no/post/3/196

If you don't know Norwegian, use some random translators by searching http://www.google.com for it...

Heh, I know the fellow who writes games for that particular paper. People are in a right uproar, calling it a "cynical attempt to get more hits and activity on their blog pages". The guy can't write for shit, but he makes some valid points about the generic nature of the trailers. He did a piece called World of BoreCraft a while back, which received a rather incredible amount of negative feedback.

It's interesting to not how insecure people are about their own tastes, no? I could be considered a member of the Norwegian gaming press myself, and most every time I bash a poor game, I'm assaulted by orthopedically challenged fanboys with nothing better to do than try to disprove my claim of MMORPGs and sandboxes being inherently dull. Opinions are only valued if one goes with the flow.

(Goes back in time to 1998...)

OMG! Zelda in polygons! Nintendo is SO selling out, I'll never buy one of their games again! :P

Having cranked through Wind Waker, Ocarina of Time, Link to the Past (except for the blue pig - he's a bit much for 60-year-old reflexes), with a good chunk of Majora's Mask and at least the first half hour of Link's Awakening and Oracle of Seasons, plus the Legend itself, it seems to me that the Zelda franchise always shines when its closest to its game roots, with a healthy dash of tongue-in-cheek Japanese kawaii - Japan Inc. is always best when it thinks its playing to the home crowd.  IMHO, that is Legend, Link to the Past, maybe Link's Awakening, and Ocarina.  Oracle of Reasonable Sages is too damn cloyingly cute, a sure sign of self-consciousness and encore performance bow-taking.  I like Wind Waker, since it was the first Zelda game I ever saw, and really had my blind mown by Ocarina -- which may be about as important in art history, in the long run, as Picasso's Guernica, or at least the Hayao Miyazaki version of the cartoon in Porco Rosso :)  Doesn't it behoove us to withhold judgment on "hyper-realism" until we see what Nintendo has done with it?  Might be crap, sure.  Might be genius.

I think Ron has a point.
Is it hard to believe the graphical style of the next Zelda is not like that for selling reasons. All that "We wanted a grown-up link" gibberish doesn't convince me.

But that doesn't mean the game overall is a sell out. I think we are all talking about the trailer of a future game, not the game itself.

I love the visual decisions made in Wind Waker. Stupid of me I bought the game only for the astonishing trailers. I still think in movement is the best looking game in Gamecube.
And I ended enjoying the beginning of the game with the art style and visuals as only reason. While getting known in Taura isle I even thought it felt more Monkey Island than Monkey Island 4.

It was once helped the antecessors of deku kids and received the boring ability to navigate through the seas at my desire that the game made me sleep faster than the people in those Flex beds TV publicity.
Wind Waker is just about the graphics and a watered-down version of the Ocarina of Time's scheme. The boat control is stupid and can't compare to the thrill of riding Epona. Same for the wind wand comparing to the Ocarina. Same for the amount and difficulty of dungeons.
With its cartoonish style Nintendo decided to put a more simple, easier and kiddy Zelda in gameplay.

Now, if these kinda realistic graphics are a reason to bring me some gameplay innovations, new and more puzzling puzzles, then I will welcome them happily even when I still enjoy way more the WW looks.

Seeing as they've done the other graphic styles so many times I don't see this so much as a sell out, but as trying something somewhat different when it comes to Zelda.  After all, they've never had a truly "realistic" looking Zelda.  (OOT really wasn't life-like.)  However, I do hope that it will be the only "realistic Zelda"  for quite some time, because as Ron says, there are plenty of graphically realistic games out there.

Have just downloaded that trailer. And wow - it is mighty impressive! It looks like there will still be great gameplay elements.

But in saying that, I know that trailers can hide the negative effects of realistic textured characters, and terrain.

In ten years I think people will look back and prefer the look and style of windwalker, and see the realsitic look of this new one as looking very 2005. But until then with people desensitized to all the negative visual aspects of the look, I think they will lap it up in droves. alas.

Honestly, I dont think the new Zelda looks THAT  realistic. The character designs are still very much in anime style and it seems to have its share of wacky creatures. Reminds me of a next gen Ocarina of Time more than anything.

Wind Waker is one of the most visually pleasing games ever though. I hope this one animates as well.

Actually they had planned something like this prior to or about the time of windwaker but scrapped it to do something halfassed. Intense realizism doesn't neccessarily mean loss of style and story. Just means it's yet another "zag" you didn't expect, and that the creators anticipate your regretting you stuck your nose up at them for making a supposed "bad move."

All of you are spreading rumors like crazy about the new zelda game.  I personally think it would be a great game, but if you want to find out what this game is gonna be about, go to zelda-Infinite.com
Or better yet, read an excerpt from the site:

Even more new Zelda details! Seems Nintendo has started to open the flood gates on this, their hotly anticipated, next installment in the Zelda series.

Apparently, Link does not hail for Hyrule. As mentioned in the pervious update, Link is from Taoru Village, and this is supposedly a neighbouring location to Hyrule, which supplies the larger region with livestock. As the story goes, every year Taoru Village sends a representative to meet with they Hyrulian neighbours, and this year, Link is sent as a last minute replacement since noone else is able to attend. On his way to Hyrule, Link uncovers something with causes him to embark on an all new, epic quest.

This latest installment in the Zelda series will feature controls very similar to those found in Wind Waker. Director Eiji Aonuma explains that though the controls are very similar, they have also been tweaked to add in some new movies such as the down-thrust. He also stated that the new game will see the return of the counter-attack move from Wind Waker.

Moreover; Mr. Aonuma stated that Ganon will be returning once more to cause Link no end in trouble. Seems a certain Princess will need some rescuing once more. It was also revealed that Link will have the ability to communicate with animals, perhaps throught the use of a new item.

The title of the new game was not revealed, however; Mr. Aonuma did mention that it would be very mysterious, and only those who are well into the game will undertand it.

That's all for now. Keep checking back from more information on the new Zelda as it become available.

UPDATE: I forgot to mention. Fishing will also be returning. That's right. All those magical hours you spent trying to catch the big fish in OoT can now be relived. Only this time it will look even better!

Okay, there!  Does that explain what the new zelda game is gonna be about?  I hope so.  It'll be similar to ocarina, with the horseback riding and fishing, but that's about it.  Link is not hylian, but Taorulian(Ugh...I made that up...)  Oh, and the annoying tingle would not be making a return(what a relief!)
Now based on this review, I hope people would understand what this games about.  If they don't like the storyline, then maybe you don't buy it.  My oppinion is that you shouldn't really judge a game, until you played it.  WW is a perfect example.
The release date is said to be on october 1st, but that may change.  I hope this review helps...

Well, to give my point of view I need to mention another series. I love Metroid, always have, and when I heard about Metroid Prime, I was excited and disturbed. I loved the look of Samus in 3D, but I feared that what I loved about Metroid would be lost in the jump to 3D. I avoided the game for a long time, and when I finally sat down and played the game I didn't like it at first, but after half an hour, I was so absorbed into the game that I forgot about any worries I had had. This game was Metroid, no matter how it looked, weather it was 2 dimensional or 3, it just was, and that just proved to me that graphics mean nothing to the game, and that as long as the gameplay is essentially the sameish, it will all make for a delightful experience.

Did Ocarina of Time have cel shaded graphics, or anything else that made its substance different than other games in the market? Its gameplay made it a legend, so this Zelda could follow its lead...

Realistic style? Maybe, in one of the two worlds of the game. The other one is going to be black and white (kind of like the one level in Wind Waker), and Link turns into a wolf when he enters it. Screenshots of this look extremely stylish indeed. I think the Gamecube is to have it's finest hours with this game.

Dont you realize you are having the exact same reaction you prolly had when you first saw images of Ocarina of Time? The skeptism was the same, that Zelda just isnt meant to be 3d, and should have stayed over-the-top style.

But maybe they DID screw it up, maybe that game WILL only be all about graphics. Maybe the gameplay style will be different, maybe it will all be screwed up. But maybe it wont be. Its just way too soon to judge about this.

Who knows, it COULD be an awesome game. What if this game was the very best Zelda game ever made? Alright, well the opposite is possible, too...

imo the form suits the game - after all, it's just like ocarina - if they had the cube then they'd have made it like this.

if the gameplay and the world is tied neatly to the graphics, then we have a coherent game form. we'll just have to wait and see - now a bit longer :/

hehe, this is a pathetic article.

Normally you play the game, then make up you mind about it.

Gimme the graphics of Wind Waker any day. Loved that game and the look of it. The only reason for me to own a GC

Ron, Have you played Indigo Prophecy (or Fahrenheit to us Europeans) yet?

It seams like an intreting take on adventure gaming.

BTW, What's your poinion on the Icon menu (broken sword) system as opposed to the Text (MI) menu system. Personally I prefer not to know the text before I click but have a general sence of the conversation. Being Dslexic, icons are more imediate then having to read text, cogiate, then respond.

Fahrenheit its a rather atmospheric game but it's certainly not an adventure game, you just move for place to place in an order that's explained to you, while hitting some buttons.

Don't get more wrong, it's good fun and well scripted but I don't think the player has to do a lot of thinking about what they're doing.

Am I wrong or was Ocarina of Time not praised for its amazing graphics, and was that not perhaps the greatest game ever? Thanks, thats what I thought. Now wait for the freaking game to come out before you dump on it.

OMG! This game sucks to the max. What is UP with the new graphics? I prefer the Ocarina Of Time the most, because it sticks to the original story. Face it people, Link isn't a cowboy with a pan pipe. Where's Ganondorf? Zelda? Link? AHEM! Uh, freckle boy swinging on the monkeys, where the HECK did you come from?? You're Link, huh? ID please!!

THIS IS THE WORST ZELDA GAME EVER MADE! GO BACK TO CARTOON!