Zelda, Lucy and Heroes

Nov 2, 2007 nine am

Three things on the agenda for today.  I know everyone's time is limited, so we'll dive right into it:

I proclaim The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass to be the best damn Zelda game ever made.  Why has it taken so long for someone to make a nice fun little non-stupid-final-fantasy- RPG-like game on the DS.  This is why I bought my DS and only now is it starting to pay off (on a side note, if I'd bought Google stock instead of a DS I'd have several thousand dollars right now).   Praise aside, Zelda has some issue, most notably, and not uncommon for Zelda games in general, is that when you save in a dungeon you are placed back outside when you load.  I hate this.  Bad game designer.  Bad game designer.  Now, maybe there is some technical reason why they do this, but I'm more inclined to follow the old saying: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by sadism".

I also submit that Lucy, Daughter of the Devil is the best dang animated show on TV.  There are three things I love about the show:  1) The writing.  It's funny, clever and has a soul.  They pack a lot of story and humor into very short and quickly paced episodes.  2) The acting and voice style is very natural sounding.  It feels more like the actors are adlibing and I'd be surprised if they don't record all their lines while in the same room at the same time.  Most animation is done with the actors doing their lines at different times and even thousands of miles apart.  This kind of voice acting would be very hard to do in games due to pacing issues.  You want game dialog to be snappy with a flow and rhythm, but you also want players to be in control.  Problem is players don't do want you want them to do when you want them to do it.  Bad player.  Bad player.  3) The animation simple and crude.  It's a great style and could easily be done real-time in a game.  I also suspect that most gamers and game reviewers would savage a game that looked like this, which is really too bad.  When will we stop caring only about the technical testosterone level of a game.  Maybe this is why creative people like Loren Bouchard make cartoons and not games.

And finally, the TV show Heroes is dead and boring.  The first season was fantastic.  I loved it more than I've loved another human being, but dear god it should have ended.  Do we really need another year of the same story told again.  I just don't care about these people anymore and like most of the people in the real world, they are annoying and I wish they'd leave my house.  It's too bad U.S. networks can't create shows with limited runs.  Heroes would have been perfect as a one-year mini-series, but network TV executives need to club every show to death with the greed-stick containing a pointy syndication-nail pounded into it.

Other people's comments:

Posted by chrisis on Nov 2, 2007 twenty to eleven am

You're right. Phantom Hourglass really IS the best Zelda ever. A bit on the short side, maybe, but still. And while I've already beaten it twice I'm still occupied by collecting all the ship parts (yes, I'm a bit of a collecting-freak, I tried to get everything in Animal Crossing too, at least, before I stopped playing it) and the Multiplayer (it seems simple at first, but it sure is addictive).

Posted by pat on Nov 2, 2007 five past eleven am

Thank you so much for saying that Heroes is dead.
I was actively looking for people who agree with me that Season 2 is just boring in my own circle of friends. Without much luck.

Posted by Ulm on Nov 2, 2007 twenty five past eleven am

One thing in defense of Zelda's dungeon level design:

Initially, I was put off at the "can't save here" aspect of Zelda's dungeon's in 'Link to the Past', the first Zelda I ever finished (all of 3 years ago). However, the more I've thought about it and played other Zelda games, I realized that it's really pretty interesting how the mechanic plays out.

Yes, you cannot save inside dungeons. However, the level designs are such that once you complete a section of the dungeon, there is always a permanent shortcut path created that gives easy access from the beginning of the dungeon to your current location. Think of it as a dungeon save checkpoint more than anything else.

All Zelda games (that I've played) since LTTP have done this. Sometimes the shortcut is hidden, but it's there. Phantom Hourglass actually goes one better by creating a portal from the beginning of the dungeon to the boss door, if you lose the boss battle.

Personally, I think it is an elegant solution to balance saving progress within a dungeon, while not allowing a player to save every 5 seconds. It also eliminates the need for multiple save files, since all progress is permanently saved to the main player profile.

Posted by Michael Abbott on Nov 2, 2007 half past noon

Hear! Hear! Thanks for your post on Phantom Hourglass. I agree wholeheartedly. FYI, I posted an essay on my blog a couple of days ago suggesting why the latest Zelda seems to have made such a small splash. Check it out if you're interested. Apologies for the self-promotion.

I always enjoy Grumpy Gamer. Thanks for all your work keeping it interesting and honest.

Best,
Michael
http://brainygamer.com

Posted by Kroms on Nov 2, 2007 quarter past one pm

Meh, I say screw dungeons. No more dungeons in RPGs.

About Lucy Daughter of the Devil...it actually really reminds me of this scene in Red Dragon. Dunno if you ever saw that movie. There's a scene in a cafe where a cop is complaining about an annoying reporter to his boss.

"Don't you remember those pictures that guy took, with the - "
" -- yeah yeah"
" -- tubes sticking out?"
" -- forgot that p*ick."

Interruption: for all your good dialogue needs. Thanks for pointing out the show too, I like it. continues to watch

Posted by Fan Tomas on Nov 2, 2007 quarter to three pm

I love you Ron, you are my preferred bitchy opinionist!

Posted by Falth on Nov 2, 2007 ten to three pm

Lucy, DotD has the same voice crew as Home Movies. I wouldn't be surprised if the writers are the same, since Brendan Small and co pulled double duty on Home Movies, as well.

If you like Lucy and haven't seen Home Movies, definitely do.

Posted by Max Battcher on Nov 2, 2007 twenty five past three pm

I do indeed love Lucy.  It certainly has met, if not exceeded, my expectations from Loren Bouchard and H. Jon Benjamin.  It's a lot of fun and there have been some killer belly laugh jokes in the series that I couldn't see coming from any other show on television.

As for Heroes, I think there's an interesting dynamic that they are trying for right now and maybe not quite hitting...  In comic books there's that sort of dynamism between what is and remains continuity and what gets rewritten and restarted and rebuilt every year.  Heroes seems to be trying to find that sweet spot that comic writers have where they can both be true to continuity and the expected (superhero continues to battle big enemies) and yet "constantly fresh" at the same time.  It's a tough juggling act that I don't think television writers in the US have ever managed to find, and yet you see it in the near timeless runs of American comics and Dr. Who, among others...

I don't think that Season 2 is as amazing so far as Season 1, and I agree that the "plague" theme from Season 2 does seem a little too similar to the "bomb" theme from Season 1, but I'm still intrigued enough to see where the writers are leading and I feel sympathy towards the writers that they feel they need some sort of "perpetual world crisis" in order to keep the show from feeling too much like a different show.  I think this season has a lot of potential left in it and I'm still interested enough in the various current subplots that I'm going to keep following the show.  The next few weeks certainly are going to be crucial to how the season gels as a whole and I think things should be interesting and that I'm going to reserve my judgment, just as I did with Season 1 actually, until the mid-season cliff hanger.

Posted by sebastys on Nov 2, 2007 twenty five to five pm

Hey, talkin about Tv and stuff....Would it be much more usefull if you do your own show?This will be a Screencast or a Webminar, o a Podcast or whatever *cast.
Like teaching how to design and programing Computer Games?
I would pay for that.And I guess many people who are reading this also will.
Go ahead Ron! dress up, turn on the screencapture and....SHARE US YOUR ACKNOWLODGMENT!!!!

bye
=)

Posted by Hunty on Nov 2, 2007 ten past six pm

Season 2 of Heroes is failing to impress me as well. I'm getting plenty of TV-ness from Avatar and Dexter, though. I think, judging from your writing, that you would enjoy the combination of those two as well.

Posted by Ninomojo on Nov 2, 2007 half past seven pm

Heroes season 1 was promising but was dead too I think. The writting wasn't as good as in other series, everything went way too fast, there was no real "building" of the superhero. Often the characters' actions wouldn't make a whole lot of sense (especially with Hiro), and the conclusion of the (first) season was disapointing (not to say pityful). It made no sense "action-wise" either.

As far as the Zelda games go, in my opinion I've never played a Zelda game that wasn't better than the previous one. I though Zelda 64 was GOD, but Wind Waker was even better to me, and Twilight Princess felt even even better to me (despite the fact that the art-style was a MAJOR step back from Wind Waker).

I just hope we can see some wide screen Wind Waker style Zelda specifically for the Wii. (And I kind of hope Nintendo will one day put as much effort they do for MArio Galaxy and the latest Zelda in some brand new AAA franchises)

Posted by Azhrei on Nov 2, 2007 twenty five past eight pm

Personally, Phantom Hourglass is about third on my list of favorites.  Link to the Past just nailed down the best possible Zelda, in my opinion.  It felt huge (moreso than Twilight Princess, where they seemed awfully focused on things being 'big'), there was a ton of stuff to do, and almost all of it was a blast.  There was also a lot less "Okay, I got this item in this dungeon, so that's what I use to beat this boss" going on.  The boss of Turtle Rock, in particular, stands out as a good fight, and an impressive looking boss.

I wish Phantom hourglass hadn't gone all stylus for the sake being all stylus.  Movement and sword attacks would have worked a lot better on the old d-pad and button combo.  The sub-weapons, though ... man, that's what the touch screen was MADE for.

Anybody else notice that Zelda games have a "Main game -> spinoff -> repeat" thing going on?  

In Zelda, you get the triforce, fight Ganon, rescue the princess.  In The Adventures of Link, you have to run around lighting up crystals, using a completely different system, and eventually fight yourself, to wake up the princess.

In LttP, fight ganon, rescue princess, get triforce.  In Links Awakening, you collect songs to wake up the wind fish to get home, and the controls are shifted up a bit.

Ocarina of Time?  Ganondorf, princess, Triforce.  Majora's mask?  Collect masks, more masks, a few more masks, help people in Bizarro-Hyrule, time travel, and eventually put the moon back in the sky.

Wind Waker?  A bit different, true, but you still end up getting the Triforce, fighting Ganondorf, and rescuing the Princess(' descendant).  And in phantom hourglass?  You run around to collect the stuff to explore the dungeon to find the places to collect more stuff to get deeper in the dungeon to find the stuff to make the weapon to destroy the evil dark ... thing.

So, Hope you aren't too tired of the Twilight princess style.  We've got a spinoff coming.

Posted by Linebeck on Nov 2, 2007 twenty past nine pm

Great to see others agree that PH is the best Zelda game ever.

Posted by rado on Nov 3, 2007 quarter to two am

I think the best animated show on TV is Venture Bros (it's on Adult Swim, 3rd season coming next year), you can probably find it on youtube.

Posted by Fuzzy McBitty on Nov 3, 2007 half past five am

Heroes season II is just as gripping as 1-- but there are 2 main problems with it.

1. They shouldn't have gone with a second apocalypse scenario. It's much too similar to season 1.
2. Once they brough everyone together at the end of season 1, they broke everone apart. Then they added more people. There's too much story going on without anything being told to the audience in a clear way. In short- the threat is indirect, and there's nothing unifying for us to care about. The only thing that can hold your attention is individual threats to individual characters-- and if you don't like the characters, you won't be interested.

It would have been far more interesting if season 2 had seemed like more of a natural progression from season one.... instead of an, "Ok, let's all go our own way and not talk about what happened at all."

Posted by Aitor on Nov 3, 2007 seven am

The second half of Heroes Season 1 was equally dead and boring. I still watch the show because I have invested quite a lot of my time watching it and I want something at least mildly exciting in return. It's pretty sad because the show has a lot of potential, but these days, it's only on rare occasions that you get something out of it.

Posted by faeryfren on Nov 3, 2007 twenty five to two pm

Ron, would you encourage a fan-made remake of MI3 with graphics from and a storyline better suited to MI2?

Posted by Daan on Nov 4, 2007 five to eleven am

Regarding your comments on making a game similar in style to Lucy DotD (which I would like to thank you for bringing to my attention), I think Telltale Games' Sam and Max is well on the way to achieving this. Incidentally, series 2 is coming out soon I believe (was it this friday?). I wonder whether this second season will impress more than that of Heroes...

Posted by spectralgunther on Nov 6, 2007 six am

I now start the countdown until you retract that statement on the second season of Heroes and tell us how wrong you were all this time.

Posted by Alex Whitington on Nov 7, 2007 half past eleven am

I've conly seen one episode of Lucy. I really liked it but, unlike every other Adult Swim show, It's not showing on Bravo and I can't find it as a download...

I know...ADULT SWIM SHOW! NOT AVAILABLE FOR ILLEGAL DOWNLOADING!
What is up with that?

Posted by parrastaka on Nov 11, 2007 quarter past eleven am

I can only say that I agree on your view of 'Heroes' TV series...

However making a one season limited miniseries does not guarantee its quality, or sometimes series develop an atmosphere, a certain group of characters that... they always work, they grow, they get better with time.

For me the best TV series ever was Northern Exposure, ok, there are not many series like this one, and nowadays, money kills successful series...

But we can always watch the first 4 seasons of NE and be delighted with them.

Posted by spaceship789 on Nov 11, 2007 ten past four pm

I think it's fair to have discrete save points in an action game. It is a common characteristic of japanese games, and makes them more appealing speed runs, and feats of skill.

Perhaps the problem is more one of expectations. Perhaps the gui should make it clear in the dungeon that zelda is reverting to the 'save point' rather than 'save anytime' model.

As an aside. I grew up on the c64, where only slow paced adventure games had a save anytime feature. Most action games you had to play from the start of the level, or had level codes. The first game I played where the save anytime feature really killed it was wolfenstein 3D. Day 1 was galking at the amazing graphics. Day 2 was figuring out I could complete the game easily by saving all the time, including when fighting big robotic hitlers. And id even had save anytime in there platform games (commanderkeen, etc). I notice you attribute the american consumer focus on 3D graphics over gameplay to id software. I believe their greater disservice to the american gaming community was proliferation of 'save anytime' for even the most actiony of games. You need to choose the save mechanic that suits your game.

Posted by Ninomojo on Nov 17, 2007 half past six pm

I believe the "savepoint" model is especially well used in the God of War games. Their level design is close to perfection, and right when you think you're in it, bam, savepoint.

I also believe a "save anytime and get restored anywhere" function would kill the Zelda games.

I was glad I could do that in Half Life 2 though, because every 15 minutes I would get stuck in a bad collision and would have to load a saved game. (Hopefully in Ep One and Two this is gone).

Posted by Freax on Nov 27, 2007 twenty past two am

The sad thing is Ron is that commercial companies or networks are not interested in quality, they just want money so they try to cash in on anything popular. I had to deal with this in Australia when Channel 7 started screening Lost and Heroes back to back and kicking out quality shows like Family Guy which did not require the viewers to watch every other episode of the season to understand whats happening.

Posted by Someone on Dec 5, 2007 half past one am

Hah...quality shows like Family Guy?! Well they brought it back, and look what happen. The show had jumped the shark from episode 1. Let face it, it was a humorless show with bunch of random gags that aren't even funny, and flashback that were irrelevant to the plot...wait a minute...Family Guy doesn't even have a plot! This is why Lucy, DotD is a far better show than Heroes and Family Guy combined.

Posted by Freax on Dec 6, 2007 twenty five past eleven pm

^Well said but I've found Family Guys stupidity to be enjoyable in the sense that it was meant to be a plotless and illogical show. However you were right on "jumping the shark", Stewie needs to start being more evil than gay. That being said, i will check out Lucy,DotD but I dont know if its been released in Australia yet.

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